tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25135975.post831629663411339569..comments2023-10-31T17:07:34.630+08:00Comments on :::...Szerelem, Szerelem...:::: Let Them Snuff Out the MoonSzerelemhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17911190230851186924noreply@blogger.comBlogger9125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25135975.post-83729975630351528152008-04-12T05:32:00.000+08:002008-04-12T05:32:00.000+08:00You just take the most awesome pictures!!! :) and ...You just take the most awesome pictures!!! :) and great poem!hideindisguisehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12080069019444438782noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25135975.post-57374306273035430862008-03-19T11:05:00.000+08:002008-03-19T11:05:00.000+08:00e: Thank you :) As Falstaff says, there's probably...e: Thank you :) <BR/>As Falstaff says, there's probably no one better to embellish Faiz than Ali. And I still haven't read better translations of Faiz's works.<BR/><BR/>falstaff: Thank you!For the poem, the lovely comment (aside: now you're using footnotes in comments too??!) and the translation.<BR/><BR/>I agree with everything you say about Ali and the two translations - in particular about the placement of snuffing out the moon. That is actually the reason I wrote that the Genoway translation is probably more accurate and captures the ending of the original better than Ali's translation.<BR/><BR/>And I love <I>Zindaan ki ek subh</I> as well...Szerelemhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17911190230851186924noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25135975.post-26762882395949106252008-03-19T06:06:00.000+08:002008-03-19T06:06:00.000+08:00P.S. My version hereP.S. My version <A HREF="http://2x3x7.blogspot.com/2008/03/prison-evening.html" REL="nofollow">here</A>Falstaffhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09791162324919462038noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25135975.post-88828036500204595562008-03-19T03:28:00.000+08:002008-03-19T03:28:00.000+08:00The poem in Devanagiri:Zinda ki ek shaamShaam ke p...The poem in Devanagiri:<BR/><BR/>Zinda ki ek shaam<BR/><BR/>Shaam ke pecho-kham sitaron se<BR/>Zeena-zeena utar rahi hai raat<BR/>Yoon saba paas se guzarti hai<BR/>Jaise keh di kisi ne pyaar ki baat.<BR/>Sahne-zinda ke be-vatan ashjar<BR/>Sarnigun mahav hain banane mein<BR/>Damne-aasman pe nakshe-nigaar.<BR/><BR/>Shaane-baam par damakta hai<BR/>Meherban chandi ka dast-e-jameel<BR/>Khaak mein dhul gayi hai aabe-najoom<BR/>Noor mein dhul gaya hai ashr ka neel. <BR/>Sabz goshon mein neelgoon saaye<BR/>Lahlahate hain jis tarah dil mein<BR/>Mauj-e-dard-e-phirak-e-yaar aaye. <BR/><BR/>Dil se paiham khayal kahta hai<BR/>Itni shireen hai zindagi is pal<BR/>Zulm ka zahar gholnewale<BR/>Kamran ho sakenge aaj na kal<BR/>Jalvagahe-visaal ki shamayein<BR/>Vo bujha bhi chuke agar to kya<BR/>Chand ko gul karen, to hum jane.<BR/><BR/>- Faiz Ahmed Faiz.<BR/><BR/>While I generally agree that Shahid tends to over-embellish Faiz in his translations (though I can think of no one more qualified to embellish on Faiz), I have to say that in this particular case Shahid's translation is not only more evocative but also more accurate. Space Bar already makes the point about "arabesques on the skirt of the sky" (shudder!). And Genoways translation of the second stanza is really bad. His rendition of "Noor mein dhul gaya hai ashr ka neel" turns a glorious image into a detergent ad. Noor is not (at least in this context) white - Shahid's word-choice ("sheen") is so much more accurate. And saying dark shadows "collide" when the original <BR/>reads "lahlahate hain" is unforgivable - it turns a gloriously undulating image into something confrontation, and totally misses the sense of rise and swell that is central to Faiz's image. <BR/><BR/>My chief criticism of Shahid's translation is not so much the embellishment (though some of it does seem unnecessary) but the way he puts the snuffing out of the moon in the middle of the stanza rather than at the end. In that one respect I'd say the Genoways translation is superior, because it keeps the sense of the last line as a challenge thrown in the face of tyranny, ending the poem on a rebellious upbeat [1], instead of softening it (as Shahid does) into something sentimental. It always strikes me how much more sentimental and well, languorous a poet Faiz is in Shahid's translations of him than he is in the original. <BR/><BR/>All of this means, of course, that I'm going to have to find the time to do a translation of my own. Sigh. <BR/><BR/>Oh, and one really must read this poem with it's companion piece - A Prison Morning (in Shahid's version 'A Prison Daybreak')<BR/><BR/>[1] This is particularly troublesome because the abruptness of that last line is fairly critical. In fact, the very form of the poem in its original - with its <BR/>abcbded rhyme scheme and its sense of a second quatrain left incomplete, seems designed to make that last line seem a pulling short, as though to suggest both constraint and defiance.Falstaffhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09791162324919462038noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25135975.post-1938149082344611102008-03-18T12:01:00.000+08:002008-03-18T12:01:00.000+08:00fucking brilliant pairing. (excuse my language).I...fucking brilliant pairing. (excuse my language).<BR/><BR/>I have been told over and over again that Ali is much more inaccurate, and accept that caveat. But it remains the case that he's the primary (non-musical) vector through which I've really been able to engage Faiz's work, and until I get around to learning Urdu, he'll probably remain as such. The Genoways is a good instructive comparison though.kitabethttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02304468949726537104noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25135975.post-34948636474588333892008-03-17T10:50:00.000+08:002008-03-17T10:50:00.000+08:00I had to track back to your blog to have a (second...I had to track back to your blog to have a (second) look at the picture and you're right...they really are like twins!!<BR/><BR/>Quite amazing, that! =)<BR/><BR/>Agree about translations - I think poetry is even more difficult. In all honesty no translation can ever come close to matching Faiz - his imagery and language is not very easily translatable and I'm thankful I can read him in the original.Szerelemhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17911190230851186924noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25135975.post-53683189795922640892008-03-14T18:47:00.000+08:002008-03-14T18:47:00.000+08:00very beautiful picture and poetry as well! I poste...very beautiful picture and poetry as well! I posted a very similar image some days ago, the coincidence is so striking :-) because the pictures are really like twins. translation is always such an intriguing and complexe business, I must wonder about the original in this case because the two are just so very different! I like the first one better.Roxanahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05650840495095863057noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25135975.post-33635133679973995882008-03-13T19:58:00.000+08:002008-03-13T19:58:00.000+08:00I think Ali's translation are so wonderful - thoug...I think Ali's translation are so wonderful - though I do think he embellishes a lot. Still.<BR/><BR/>Just realised the coincidence about Faiz! He is definitely one of my favourite (if not most favourite) poet. I have been saying thi s a lot lately, but I haven't been much of a poetry reader and any (growing) interest is credited to Faiz, Darwish and Hikmet. Brilliant all three and such wonderful companions.Szerelemhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17911190230851186924noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25135975.post-44726439973616032652008-03-13T13:45:00.000+08:002008-03-13T13:45:00.000+08:00'embroidering maps of return' is so much better (i...'embroidering maps of return' is so much better (in my opinion) than the other one. what a coincidence about faiz! :DSpace Barhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08251329008160756254noreply@blogger.com