tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25135975.post3380796818421582761..comments2023-10-31T17:07:34.630+08:00Comments on :::...Szerelem, Szerelem...:::: Food CulturesSzerelemhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17911190230851186924noreply@blogger.comBlogger6125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25135975.post-47298361456105009252007-11-20T16:56:00.000+08:002007-11-20T16:56:00.000+08:00Szerelem, I honestly think Perry is overstating hi...Szerelem, I honestly think Perry is overstating his case. Katlama is more like a layered parantha or a lahmacun - it has hardly any resemblance to baklava. <BR/><BR/>Nuts, dough, sugar syrup and cinnamon is the classic combo in Levantine/Iraqi Arab, and later, Byzantine and Ottoman sweet-making traditions. There's absolutely nothing Central Asian about it. <BR/><BR/>As for the Azeris, if they have any baklava-like desserts, it is almost certain that they got them from the Persians, as for most of their history they were part of various Persian empires. Except for their Turkic language, the Azeris are culturally heavily Persian-influenced.thalassa_mikrahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01942716364297839680noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25135975.post-29505557170321744462007-11-19T00:17:00.000+08:002007-11-19T00:17:00.000+08:00ah, I'm so glad you liked this book. you've left ...ah, I'm so glad you liked this book. you've left me wanting to go back and read it all over again!<BR/><BR/>my mentor (who is Turkish) does a very funny lecture in his fall term class, right before Thanksgiving break, on the story of how turkey got to be turkey, riffing off on the subject to touch on all manner of world-historical connections. And did you know that in Gaelic its name translates to the "French bird"?<BR/><BR/>And armchair philosopher, no, it's not very common in Turkish food, in my experience.kitabethttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02304468949726537104noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25135975.post-8842622486657457822007-11-15T09:44:00.000+08:002007-11-15T09:44:00.000+08:00Ok - start by cursing blogger which has not let me...Ok - start by cursing blogger which has not let me reply to comments!!<BR/><BR/>T_M: Actually Perry <I>does</I> give examples of baklava like desserts across Central Asia. I don't have the book with me but the one I remember is Qatlama which is present all the way east even in Xinjiang (and also in Pakistan I think). He also mentions Azeri Pakhlavi as the missing piece of the puzzle. It's quite an interesting thesis. (Actually the book mentions that the biggest debate is whether the baklava is Greek or Turkish and in either country mentioning that its central asian does not go down very well). Haven't read Nasrallah but the book looks good!<BR/><BR/>TAP: How could you not make the connection between the bird and the country? It's so obvious!<BR/>Turkey in Turkish food - hmmm I think lamb and beef are more the staple meats. And I gather you mean ME food is better than meat cooked in the US?<BR/><BR/>Beth: Thank You! I didn't think of dinde at all. (Blame my rusty and unused French). But it does seem likely that it comes from d'Inde doesn't it?? I would never have figured it out either :DSzerelemhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17911190230851186924noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25135975.post-11166175648092129972007-11-13T07:05:00.000+08:002007-11-13T07:05:00.000+08:00Loved this post. And it may explain to me, finally...Loved this post. And it may explain to me, finally, the puzzling French name for turkey - "dinde" - probably a contraction of "d'Inde." How the hell would one figure that out?Bethhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15829062955658284450noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25135975.post-36103816870551608632007-11-12T14:52:00.000+08:002007-11-12T14:52:00.000+08:00Finally, the explanation for Hindi in Turkish.. As...Finally, the explanation for Hindi in Turkish.. As I was saying, I hadn't even thought about the relation between the bird and the country before! <BR/><BR/>But how popular is Turkey in Turkish cuisine? My impressions of turkey stem from its thanksgiving avatar, and if you look at it from purely a culinary perspective - the cooked bird in the US is no match for any meat cooked in the middle east or regions in that vicinity.<BR/><BR/>As for the namesake restaurants - hell yeah :D Too bad I won't be able to make it to Samarkand this year, sigh.<BR/><BR/>Lip smacking post, btw.That Armchair Philosopherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08234989019193283228noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25135975.post-69514235525782843092007-11-12T06:11:00.000+08:002007-11-12T06:11:00.000+08:00You've touched on one of my favourite subject - th...You've touched on one of my favourite subject - the intermingling of food cultures from the Persian, Ottoman and Arab world all the way to Northern India. <BR/><BR/>Though frankly, I would disagree with Charles Perry and go with Nawal Nasrallah who argues that baklawa is of Baghdadi origin, even though its name is Turkish. <BR/><BR/>That's because: <BR/><BR/>a) there is absolutely no baklawa equivalent in Central Asia, though the dessert exists in all of Eastern Mediterranean, Iran, Iraq and the Levant. <BR/><BR/>b) there are any number of desserts of Arab origin that require pastries to be soaked in syrup<BR/><BR/>c) during the Ottoman time, it became fashionable to call even things of Arab origin by Turkish names. Hence, mahshi, stuffed vegetables, were called by the Turkish name dolma.thalassa_mikrahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01942716364297839680noreply@blogger.com